Freestyle 1.3.0 has been released!

[Mads Andersen]

A lot more work on behind-the-scenes stuff happened in this release than I had planned. No new features are introduced.

Enjoy!
/Mads

- Split "madsie.freestyle" module into modules "madsie.freestyle" and "madsie.freestyle.geometry".

- Reworked import/export design.

- Changed demo limitation.

- Tracking of whether a document has changed had a bug.

- Fixed bug related to tooltips when widgets go from visible to hidden.

- Handling of mouse button release in the viewport had a bug.

- Introduced StyleVariant as the new style key in themes.

- Reduced the number of graphics driver calls.

- Made widget bounds use window coordinates instead of local coordinates.

- Reworked mouse and key events.

- Improved focus handling.

- Reworked popup handling.

- Actually triggering shortcuts is now more robust.

- Profiled the GUI and made changes that reduces garbage creation significantly.

- Improved the Cell API.

- Fixed dissolve vertex crash.

- Fixed edge collapse crash caused by polygon representation when collapsing into an isolated vertex.

- Fixed subdivision level change crash caused by uncalculated normals.

[puzzledpaul]

Mads - bit lonely in here atm?

After the heds /weds discussion at uno where, I decided to d/l and have a look / play with your 'baby'.

Only had a few brief tries upto now, and I confess to not having trawled thro' the help as thoroughly as I should ... so, apols if I've missed the relevant bits

Are there any ways of constraining mouse drag amounts (like modifier keys)? to specific (user specified) intervals?
What units are being used for the rotate (change axis) direction option?
Are there any ways of locking all 3 (or just 2) axis dialogue boxes when altering the mesh density of a primitive ...
... and likewise when transforming an object.

One op I've been trying is a vector rotate ...

eg select top face of a cube and rotate it using one of its own edges as the pivot axis ... are there any 'snapping' options anywhere? ... if not, how does user align axis to edge (when dealing with unknown object dimensions)

Various other comments come to mind, but gotta be elswhere atm

Good luck, btw .... in this somewhat crowded market

pp

[Mads Andersen]

Hi PuzzledPaul,

Thanks a lot for trying Freestyle!

I can definitely see how controlling the gizmos with any precision is too hard right now. I'll make gizmos the theme of the 1.4.0 release, so constraining and snapping to geometry is super-easy by then.

The "custom" direction in e.g. rotate is actually a "direction vector", and not a set of euler angles. This is definitely not clear enough, and in 1.4.0 there will be "Normal" (as now), "Vector" (current "Custom"), and the new "Target" (coordinate that the direction will point toward from the pivot point). So with a "custom" pivot point and a "target" direction it will be trivial to rotate around an edge by snapping the "custom" and "target" gizmos to the vertices of the edge.

Are there any ways of locking all 3 (or just 2) axis dialogue boxes when altering the mesh density of a primitive ...
... and likewise when transforming an object.

Do you mean so that X, Y and Z all change in tandem when changing one of them? If so, no not currently, but I just added it to the todo...

It is really great getting this feedback, it makes it sooo much easier prioritizing what to do next. If you come up with anything else please let me know!

It is lonely in here, but on the other hand the number of members just doubled in the past 24 hours

[Satoribomb]

Hi Mads - really glad to see that Freestyle didn't disappear for good. Was only able to play with the 1.3.0 version briefly - and that wasn't very successful. I'll be trying again this weekend when I have time to delve into its workings.

One big question keeps plaguing me though - what happened to the Mirai/Wings navigation style from the earlier iterations of Freestyle? Part of what I loved about freestyle was its feel - like a hybrid of Silo's presentation and WIngs' operation. Now, it feels a lot more like Lightwave/Modo in terms of its workflow. Why the big changes?

[puzzledpaul]

<< Do you mean so that X, Y and Z all change in tandem when changing one of them? >>

Yes ... so user can change just one ... or 2 or 3 in tandem.
Be v. useful (imo) to user if they're intending to alter by the same amount - especially if it's a weird amount (I realise there's a data entry option, but to do this for all 3 axes, individually .... )
This sort of thing is also helped if constraints (as prev. mentioned) are available ... user then drags thro' the reqd no of 'click steps' ...

Be interested to see how the improved vector mods work, as doing this sort of thing in wgs is just such a doddle.

Do you intend adding view xyz in ortho? ... these options are just sooo useful if user wants to align certain aspects ... using mk 1 eyeball ... especially if tools don't exist for such tasks.

Can't guarantee to make too many comments ... as exciting times are afoot elsewhere in the 3D modeller world and time is limited ... + summer on the doorstep = lots of insects to photograph

pp

[Mads Andersen]

Hi Satoribomb,

Great to hear from you again!

I definitely understand your concern. Wings/Mirai popups and "no gizmos" does give it a very nice workflow, almost magical. However for new users it can be off putting, and there are limits to it.

When you want to do more advanced operations you are required to set everything up in a fixed sequence, e.g. magnet axis and ref point rotate: 1) pick axis 2) pick point 3) pick outer boundary point for magnet influence 4) rotate. If you make a mistake in a previous step you have to start over, and you have to realize exactly what you want to do before invoking the rotate tool. Gizmos allow for a much more free-flowing setup of an operation, and it allows much more experimentation.

Also constantly having to map X, Y and Z to actual directions in the viewport before clicking the corresponding popup item kind of gets tiresome for new users. Gizmos directly show what will happen in the viewport.

One of the ideas with the new GUI was to out-Wings Wings. That is, to be even more context sensitive than Wings. Wings (and the old Freestyle) is actually not that context-sensitive. It assumes you're working on a polygon model. The new Freestyle GUI assumes nothing. If I added a voxel sculpting object, the GUI would simply show the voxel tools when a voxel object is picked. When working on a polygon object there would be absolutely no clutter from voxel tools. If I added texture painting, you would simply select "Paint" in the polygon object (where there today only is "Transform" and "Model"), and the texture layers would be shown directly in the inspector, and you could pick the layer to paint in, and the painting tools would be right there. With Modo etc. you have to change a lot of different panels etc. to do the same.

I have spent a lot of time and experiments coming up with the current paradigm. As Freestyle stands today it might not make a lot of sense over Wings, but as new features are added I think it will scale tremendously since it is designed from the ground up to be extremely context sensitive. I agree that currently Freestyle does not have the streamlined feel that Wings has. I think a lot of that stems from the fact that Wings has been developed for 8 years, so a lot of polishing based on user feedback is in there.

Maybe Freestyle has strayed a little to far away from Wings? There haven't been much user feedback so far, so development have mainly been guided by my usage. (I think the actual polygon modeling toolset in Freestyle is pretty much the same as the one in Wings.)

I'm definitely open to suggestions on how to improve the workflow! When I model I spend a lot of the time tweaking vertices, so maybe adding a tweak-tool like the one in Wings where you can modify the shape without using gizmos would help?

[Mads Andersen]

Do you intend adding view xyz in ortho?

I do now

Can't guarantee to make too many comments ... as exciting times are afoot elsewhere in the 3D modeller world and time is limited ... + summer on the doorstep = lots of insects to photograph

You have already given me a lot to think about! Thanks again for trying Freestyle.

[puzzledpaul]

A few more thoughts after a(nother) quick play.

Why are segments limited to 10?
Are you intending to add some sort of measurement function?
Will the data input fields ever support (the results from) expression entry ... don't appear to at the moment.

You'll probably not agree with me on this'un ... but I think there's a missed opportunity at present, when user has selected multiple separate elements.
Freestyle offers a widget for each element ... but all elements move / operate at the same time when any widget is used

Am I overlooking some way by which it's possible for user to only operate on one of the selected elements ... by maybe holding down a modifier key perhaps?
Other apps presumably also move all elements at same time ... so nothing different there ... but since FS is 'seeming to offer the possibility' of moving one (or more?) of the selected elements on an individual basis, by displaying widgets for each element ... it seems like something is being offered ... but not delivered

pp

A few other
Why have 'Axis Picker' presented to the user, meaning they have to open that dialogue, as opposed to one of the options available by default - poss have user pref allowing them to change what's initially shown?
In the case where there's only 2 options, means that user by definition has to waste a click, as opposed to a 50/50 chance of getting what they want?
Can't see any flatten tools - are they there, but I've missed 'em
Marquee / lasso selection tools?

Duno if this is correct operation or not, but
Create super cyl
lmb on height slider thingy ... height changes > 0 and can't be changed from zero by sliding/dragging mouse in that field.(entering No in data entry ok)

Also noticed, btw that Silo core is on summer sale atm for $79 ...


also... this locked FS solid, needed cntl alt del to clear

open FS
add super cyl
make stackes / slices > 64
select all, deselect top face
geometric > scale axis
axis picker > custom
move widget +Y
scale Y (via widget) ... jiggle up / down and then accept
scale radial ... drag bigger ... and locks up

did this 3 times in a row ... so I'd say it's repeatable.

XPpro, sp3 quad core 4gb

[Mads Andersen]

Hi PuzzledPaul,

Wow, there's a lot of ideas here!

Why are segments limited to 10?

It's only that way to "protect the user". I'll try to soften it up.

Are you intending to add some sort of measurement function?

Measurement can be a little weird on subdiv surfaces, but on polygons that would be really useful. I'll look into adding it in 1.4.x.

Will the data input fields ever support (the results from) expression entry ... don't appear to at the moment.

This is a pretty easy feature to implement, I've added it to the todo.

You'll probably not agree with me on this'un ... but I think there's a missed opportunity at present, when user has selected multiple separate elements.
Freestyle offers a widget for each element ... but all elements move / operate at the same time when any widget is used

Wow, that's really interesting! I haven't thought in those lines at all. You're definitely what I would call a power-user, and so far I've focused primarily on the simple stuff (and just getting Freestyle up and running). I'm not really sure how to deliver this feature without making the interface more complicated, but I'm sure this idea will keep me up at night

Why have 'Axis Picker' presented to the user, meaning they have to open that dialogue, as opposed to one of the options available by default - poss have user pref allowing them to change what's initially shown?

The idea is actually that you click the "Axis Picker" gizmo in the viewport. That way the X, Y and Z axes are visualized. So yes, there is one more click, but it frees you from mapping X, Y and Z to viewport directions in your head. I can see your point, and I'm going to add a Scale and Rotate tool that works like in other applications (with X, Y and Z handles present at all times).

Can't see any flatten tools - are they there, but I've missed 'em

Scale Axis 0% I should probably promote that to a button...

Marquee / lasso selection tools?

I really hope to add marquee select in an not so distant future. Should be pretty easy.

Duno if this is correct operation or not, but
Create super cyl
lmb on height slider thingy ... height changes > 0 and can't be changed from zero by sliding/dragging mouse in that field.(entering No in data entry ok)

If you press the mouse on the slider/spinner, and move to the left past 0, you have to move the mouse back past the point where 0 was reached before the value will climb again. I agree that's pretty crappy and I'll fix that in the next release.

also... this locked FS solid, needed cntl alt del to clear

Wow, great bug report! I just reproduced this, and I'll make sure to get it fixed in the next release.

Also noticed, btw that Silo core is on summer sale atm for $79 ...

Yeah, Silo is a great app. I feel that Freestyle adds something with regard to performance (try creating a 100,000 polygon object, set subdiv level to 2 in both apps so there'll be around 1.6 million subdiv polygons, Freestyle happily lets you select, make topological and geometrical changes etc. Silo not so much...), correct smooth shading of hard edges, and more flexible tools. Then Silo has features that Freestyle doesn't have yet, such as tweak, symmetry and UV mapping.

[Mads Andersen]

Argh, just noticed that many of the gizmos don't work properly in 1.3.0